The Revelation 12 Woman 

by Jen Shroder
12/20/10 free to repost 12/20/10 free to repost

"1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne".

"A woman."

Did you notice there are no virtuous descriptions as afforded the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus; or Sarah mother of Isaac; or Rebekah mother of Jacob/Israel? Those women were given the distinctions of "favored of God" or "almah" or as with "the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit" or "holy women" but not so for the Revelation 12 woman.

She is merely, "a woman."

And what is the great wonder in heaven? Is it that she is clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars? God provides us with robes of righteousness through Christ, we throw our crowns in adoration at Christ’s feet. All glory and power are His. Praise God. But the Revelation 12 woman’s position, her crown, garment--are those the great wonder?

"A crown of twelve stars." Stars have also signified angels, especially in Revelation. That twelve angels would gather to form a crown, is this something that she deserved by great works or faith? If so, where are the words of accolade? Why is God silent about her character? And why is she here, in the middle of Revelation?

I believe the "wonder" is truly what angels desire to look into and are not recorded as receiving themselves: grace. If a way of salvation is given to the angels that fell, the Bible is silent about it. The Good News that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life…WHOEVER believes. Would God pour such mercy and grace even unto a woman of our modern times, so lost in the culture of these United States that she is even unaware how great are her sins? Born and raised in a culture where virginity is often despised, thrown away to enter the 'sophisticated' arena of sex as a sport? As children we are deluged with images of our favorite movie star hopping into bed with her flavor of the month to live happily ever after and we applaud, until her next movie premiere where she lands a different husband in the same way.

We looked for love in all the wrong places, swilling wine and daring each other to try whatever street drugs are popular at the time, listening to the world tell us to lie down and dismantle that inconvenient surprise of a child until Prince Charming (who never comes) sweeps us off our feet…we just slept with the wrong prince, somehow that rarely happens in a Julia Roberts movie. Wait, mom, how did you meet dad again? When did June Cleaver become Lady Gaga?

Meanwhile our public schools actually instruct our children to participate in religious acts of worship to other gods. Our courts rule this as acceptable because it is done in "demonstration" while purposely giving children the impression that no god is any better than any other god, to role them all up and throw them all away…it is the wolf in "critical thinking." Somehow the academic elite decided to empower children to reject their parent's discernment, give them trash as information and tell them to think for themselves based on what these credentialed atheists believe, to act like harlots born of apes in a world without morals, just decide your own individual "values," oh and here's a condom...

And so our society has come to this and the Revelation 12 woman represents this age. I submit to you that the Scriptures do not place the Revelation 12 woman on a pedestal for a reason. Like Mary Magdalene, like the woman at the well, there are no harsh labels of judgment. Though wholly unworthy of the great sacrifice and gift of Christ, these women put their trust in Him. I believe this Revelation 12 woman grew up lost in this decadent generation, yet cried out in torment trapped in these times to her Lord and Savior and was answered.

And as the Lord patiently waits as our generation rushes down this road of destruction, watching young men and women drowning in lies about who they are, of right and wrong, of goodness and evil, defiling their own purity as trash, deceived in a culture turned upside down, trained to blaspheme their only hope…God sees and knows and calls us to Himself out of our desperate situation, like the Good Shepherd that leaves His flock and goes after the one.

I believe the wonder in heaven of Revelation 12 is that Christ came even for us. That as the time of the Gentiles comes to a close, as the perversions and decadence reaches a shrill peak of crescendos…God sent His Son even for us. His light cuts through the darkness and His power and glory reaches the lost, even today. Even in a nation that is seen by the world as a "Christian" nation, yet has fallen so far and so fast that we’ve begun funding abortion mills worldwide... O most unholy of nations, to represent Jesus Christ while spreading our filth and shame under the guise of freedom, infecting it like a cancer, dancing a dance of adultery, pornography, pedophilia, fornication, perversion, rape, murder, our nation is going under, and yet, God will hear a single cry and answer our call.

Some will argue that the woman is the virgin Mary because her man child is to rule the nations with a rod of iron. But in Revelation 2 it says:

These things says the Son of God…and he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—

as I also have received from My Father; and I will give him the morning star. "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."’

Jesus Christ ultimately rules with a rod of iron, but right here it shows His intention to delegate some of the work.

Therefore I believe the Revelation 12 woman literally exists, that this particular wonder is a wonder in heaven because of the great lengths His mercy extends. Few of us appreciate that mankind are not the only ones watching. There is a spiritual realm that we do not know yet but will.

"for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men."(1 Cor 4)

Everyone wonders why America is not named in the Bible, I’m starting to wonder if we are "the time of the Gentiles," because what nation has been like ours?

"And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled" (Luke 21)

We began as a Christian nation, a light to the world, we’ve sent out so many missionaries faithfully carrying the Good News of Christ Jesus. The world still sees us as a "Christian" nation, that’s why President Obama tries to deny it. It’s also why, when we spread the most unholy practices throughout the world, and are seen as representatives of Christ, it just cannot continue, and judgment begins with the house of the Lord.

It’s coming.

The Revelation 12 woman. I believe she is a modern American woman representative of our culture and the despair that engulfs her. Desolation. There are no words of beauty or holiness for this woman because she threw her purity away with both hands, unaware of her loss or condition yet cried out to the Lord in her desperation and sorrow, trapped in this ungodly time. The wonder is not the woman. The wonder is that Christ reached past all the depravity and perversion willing to save generations of lost and dying children who call out to Him still.

But then, that’s the wonder, the amazing wonder of it all…that Christ would offer such amazing salvation to us, even to the least among us, because of what He did. That even while we were sinners, Christ loved us. Came for us. Died for us. And rose again. And because of such mercy and grace, that for those who receive Him, He picks us up, washes us off, dresses us in fine linen and even a crown! He gives us so much that we don’t deserve. Praise God for His mercy and grace!

"Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." (Luke 15)

God knows your struggles, He sees how we are assaulted by confusion each day. He calls to you now, receive Him while there is still time, because time is running out.
Receive Him and live.

***

Are you willing to turn your life completely over to Him? If you are, pray this prayer

“Dear Father, I know I have sinned. I believe Jesus died for me. I ask for Your forgiveness right now. I choose to turn from my rebellion against You. Jesus, please come into my heart and take over my life. Fill me with Your Holy Spirit and help me to serve You. In Jesus’ name I pray. Amen.”


If you prayed that prayer, welcome! Life begins with just such a heart. But it's important to read what He wrote you, I believe starting with the book of John is a good place to start. And find fellowship. Pray and ask the Lord to guide you. Contact us and we'll pray for you too. God bless you.

 Blow the Trumpets, Weep for our Children!
by Jen Shroder 12/13/10 Free to repost

Blow the trumpets! Sound the alarm! Awake, awake, awake and arise! For these United States have been led away.

The law is powerless,
And justice never goes forth.
For the wicked surround the righteous;
Therefore perverse judgment proceeds.

We represented all nations and God gave us His light to shine on a hill. We were a Christian nation. We have cherished His word; we have humbled ourselves and prayed on our knees, yes even face to the ground. We, and our fathers before us, fought and died to preserve freedom, that all could worship freely. We have been blessed with the Holy Spirit who comforted us, we have been able to openly share with and welcome new saints all over the world. And so the world recognizes us as a Christian nation. To the world we represent Christ since our birth, our roots, our traditions, our forefathers, our missionaries. We have stood reflecting His light, proclaiming the name of Jesus Christ. We have been like no other nation and for generations we have been blessed.

But our leaders plot against Israel as the time of the Gentiles is setting. Weep for our children overwhelmed by the darkness that has entered this Gentile melting pot. Our people now revel in evil. With prosperity we forsook Him. The Lord will not suffer the children, HIS children, be lured to darkness much longer.
We lead our children to sexual dances and look away as they fornicate, then we tell them to lie down and murder their unborn. Those who are spared have been put up for auction to the highest bidder. Our public schools are full of blasphemy and fornication. We trusted our young to the world and closed our eyes while their minds were corrupted, full of death and perversion.

For indeed I am raising up the Chaldeans,
A bitter and hasty nation
Which marches through the breadth of the earth,
To possess dwelling places that are not theirs.

And so history repeats itself, did we expect to fare better than Israel with her back to the Lord? Are we better than Sodom and Gomorrah? Did we think we could exalt all gods and our Creator would not see? Does He not see how we teach His little ones to play the harlot even in class? To do what is unnatural with each other hidden even in hallways? GOD SEES, He knows, and His wrath is kindling while we mock and jeer and parade through the streets gyrating acts of fornication and perversion in front of missions and on the steps of His churches as even parents clap with their children.

Their faces are set like the east wind.
They gather captives like sand.
Ascribing this power to their god.

And when we are struck we call out to our God and pretend that we know Him, we suddenly hush and tell each other He will not leave us when we have mocked and blasphemed His name for so long!

Behold the proud,
His soul is not upright in him;
But the just shall live by faith.

We have kissed the books of their gods and told our children to walk in their ways and then wonder why God does not shield us from their judgments even as we turn on Israel! Even as we demand she negotiate her land and call it "peace," this is not the peace of Israel!

We were so blessed and prospered! But then we thought ourselves wise and above God, we proudly shunned all of His precepts and tore down His commandments and hid His inscriptions and pretend He does not exist. Then we toppled governments and insisted our "freedom" be imposed as we prepare our abortion mills and promote all pornography, pedophilia, sorcery and pharmakeia and present it to the world as from a Christian nation. It will not stand!

Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor,
Pressing him to your bottle,
Even to make him drunk,
That you may look on his nakedness!

We teach our children to bow to other gods and when the nations of those gods surround us, we are astonished. We call out to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob but He will not hear our leaders who have taken us to such blasphemous places and then call out His name and pretend to know Him! Before the smoke has cleared we return to our idolatries, our games, our vain occupations and say the Lord will accept us because we are worthy.

For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.

God will call to His children and His own will know Him. But to you that sit and feast at unknown tables, eat and drink the portions you have prepared for yourselves. The time of trouble is at hand, for you have taken the candlestick and cover the flame. What has been given you has been trampled in His sight. He has seen it! The land will not be made to suffer our harlotry much longer!

Woe to him who says to wood, ‘Awake!’
To silent stone, ‘Arise! It shall teach!’
Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver,
Yet in it there is no breath at all.

Trouble is coming to those who trespass on the land of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who rejoice at the groans of a nation that God has named. Who also dance at the torment of our once great Christian nation who even now tries to suffocate our own light. The Jews are God’s people. He has told you through the ages He will not forsake them even to the end of time! When you torment His people, you provoke His hand. God will roar like a lion at a withering branch and those who oppose Him will crumble into the dust, an abhorrence forever. Do not turn on Israel! Do not dare to raise a hand against her or pressure her to lay down and die! For God will not allow Israel to fall!

Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"

We provoke our own death and destruction! Do not blame the Muslims or the Chinese or the Russians or the North Koreans, Iran or Iraq or the nations that gather against us. We are guilty before God! We brought this on ourselves!

Though the fig tree may not blossom,
Nor fruit be on the vines;
Though the labor of the olive may fail,
And the fields yield no food;
Though the flock may be cut off from the fold,
And there be no herd in the stalls—
Yet we will rejoice in the LORD,
We will joy in the God of our salvation.
The LORD God is our strength;


If you know Him, stand fast in what you have. If you don’t know the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, if you have not reconciled yourself to Him through Jesus Christ who suffered, died and rose again to purchase you that you could be His…now is a good time to start.

"The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD."

Jesus stood in the synagogue and read that passage. He is coming back for the rest. I urge you, do not be caught without Him. Seek Him while there is still time.

Greatly rejoice in the LORD,
Would that your soul be joyful in your God;
For He would clothe you with the garments of salvation,
He would cover you with the robe of righteousness,
As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments,
And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
For as the earth brings forth its bud,
As the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth,
So the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

The Sign of Jonah for Islam
as seen at FreeRepublic  by Jen Shroder

Muslims seem to be having trouble understanding the "Sign of Jonah." Because Islamworld and my webpage currently trade off for Google's number 1 slot on the subject, I have been overwhelmed with Muslim claims that the sign disproves Jesus, so please allow me to answer with Scriptures. Jesus said:

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (Mt 12:40)

The Muslim argument begins with the claim that Jonah was alive when he was thrown into the sea, was swallowed by the fish and then vomited out to go on and preach at Ninevah. They argue that if Jonah was alive, then Jesus must have been alive in the tomb.

Where do Scriptures say that Jonah did not die in the giant fish? From Jonah's prayer, it looks like he did:

"...Out of the belly of hell I cried...the earth with its bars closed behind me forever; Yet You have brought up my life from the pit, O LORD, my God. When my soul fainted within me, I remembered the LORD..." (Jonah 2)

Surely Islam agrees that once dead we do not cease to exist? This is not the whole miracle of Christ, but the parallels between Jesus and Jonah confirm each other.

Once the debate about the death of Jonah is over, the argument begins that Jesus was not dead three days and three nights. Read carefully what the Scriptures say. It was never written that Jesus was dead three days and three nights, how would that be a sign when Jesus had just called Lazarus out of the tomb after four days? Would Christ give a lesser sign?

What was miraculous and a sign is that Jesus became our sin:


"For He has made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;
that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him."
(2 Cor 5:21)
When Jesus became sin, He was engulfed by it on the night He was betrayed and arrested.

As I showed in "The Sign of Jonah," ALL of the Scriptures name the time by including Jesus SUFFERED, died and rose again wherever it is written: "three days and three nights." EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM. One Scripture quotes a Pharisee that left out any form of "suffer," but that was because he was a Pharisee and didn't know. In the authority of Scripture, twelve times, the suffering of Christ is ALWAYS included.

The three days and three nights, as told by Scriptures, began when He was taken by the soldiers and presented as the Lamb, without blemish. His last noted Biblical miracle until His resurrection was healing an ear. At the exact moment in time when He was taken, He was made to be sin for us and the beatings and abuse began. If it was not so, then these verses would make no sense:


"He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace [prosperity, welfare] was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed" (Isaiah 53:5)

"[We were redeemed]... with the precious blood of Christ,
as of a lamb without blemish and without spot." (1 Peter 1:19)

"For He has made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;
that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him."
(2 Cor 5:21)
Payment for our sins did not begin with His death, but when His precious blood flowed. This is what Scripture says. And at that point He was sin, "that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." Jesus did not begin payment when He died but for three days and nights before He rose again, at the moment He was arrested. He even said so:


"But this is your hour, and the power of darkness" (Luke 22:53)
The heart of the earth, according to Scripture, is not death in the ground. The heart of the earth is the wickedness of men's souls. The heart of the earth is our sin that Jesus became surrounded and submerged in. Why do you think there are so many parables about sowing seed [the words of life] in the earth [the heart of man]? We are the earth, remember?


"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Gen 2)
If death alone was the only price to redeem us, then why did Christ pay with so much more? "Wounded for transgressions." "Bruised for our iniquities." "By His stripes we are healed." All of that, ALL of it, is included in the sign of Jonah, who was praying "out of the belly of hell."

So to all of Islamworld who try to use the Sign of Jonah to criticize Christians and our beliefs, be very careful. We come to Christ as children, there are mysteries in the Bible that the Holy Spirit reveals in His timing, not ours. But what He has revealed to us we receive gratefully, because He came for us and for you too, if you would receive Him. Please don't miss the last words of Jonah's prayer fulfilled by Jesus:


"Salvation is of the LORD."
God did not want you to miss His Son. Please do not miss the sign that He gave. It points directly at Jesus Christ and His suffering, death and resurrection that you could have life in Him.

Original "Sign of Jonah" given to atheists
Much more in depth, even explains the man in linen on the night He was betrayed.

Conversations about
Islam and Muhammad

an invitation

I've been receiving a ton of emails from Muslims lately attempting to debate the Sign of Jonah and the authenticity of Scriptures compared to the Quran / Koran. I am posting this in hope they will address their concerns here.

I do ask that we keep it at one topic at a time. Flooding with cut and pastes is not at all helpful, and I only have so much time. Thanks.

UPDATE: After receiving no response, following are clips from another forum with some mail answers mixed in. You are welcome to respond in comments or PLEASE post your emails here.

Culture Jihadist said...
But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. - LUMEN GENTIUM

Nevertheless, the religiosity of Muslims deserves respect. It is impossible not to admire, for example, their fidelity to prayer. The image of believers in Allah who, without caring about time or place, fall to their knees and immerse themselves in prayer remains a model for all those who invoke the true God, in particular for those Christians who, having deserted their magnificent cathedrals, pray only a little or not at all.
- "Crossing the Threshold of Hope" by Pope John Paul II

Jen said...
ummmm, Culture Jihadist, maybe Muslims are so devoted because their holy books tell them it is DEATH to leave Islam. And the way it plays out in the Middle East, often members of their family receive torture if a family member leaves.

No Muslim can deny that to leave Islam, to stop being Muslim, is punishable by death in Islam. On that there are no contradictions.
Culture Jihadist said...

maybe Muslims are so devoted because their holy books tell them it is DEATH to leave Islam.

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
You would have to ask Muslims in America and Europe, where no civil authority can put them to death for apostacy, why they continue to worship the one same God as the Christians do.

Jen said...
But Allah is not the Christian God. If Allah was, why would he put a curse upon all Christians and Jews?

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah…And the Jews say Ezra is the son of God; and the Christians say Christ is the son of God; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; Allah’s curse be on them; how they are turned away!" (Koran 9:29-30)

Culture Jihadist said...
The Pope says one thing, while jent says something else. There's a moral dilemma, choosing whether to follow the lead of the visible head of Christendom, or some anonymous internet blogger's opinion.

Jen said...
Don't believe me, don't accept everything from the Pope without checking with the Holy Spirit and the Bible. It's all about God and what He wrote. Compare that to what Muhammad said that Allah said, the characters are opposite.
Allah is not "God". It grieves me that we changed all the awesome names of God in the Bible to the title "God." Now it's very confusing when Allah is translated to god. We should have continued to call "God" Eloheim, Yeshua, Adonai, El Shaddai, so many beautiful names.

Allah is not one of them. In fact, phonetically, in Hebrew, Allah means to curse and lament.

dizzy said...
So the pope and the catholic church is suffering from apostasy, just as we were warned. That is why I differentiate Catholicism from Christianity. I am NOT doing this to start a flame war with catholics. Before you blast me, please read the following questions posed below and when you can answer them with biblical cites, feel free to respond on that issue.

Catholicism is defined by the whim of the Pope, whom the church sees as "infallible" on topics ecumenical, biblical and spiritual.

A "Christian" is defined thusly: A believer in Jesus Christ as savior: somebody who believes that Jesus Christ was sent to the world by God to save humanity, and who tries to follow his teachings and example".

Per that "Lumen Gentium" you cited, The Pope disagrees with the words of Jesus Christ that HE (Christ) is the one route to salvation. How can one disavow Christ's teachings on salvation and define oneself as "CHRISTian"? How can one praise those who worship other "gods" for their worship of that "god"; (as done is topic 16 of the Lumen Gentium) and the islamic "god" IS another "god"; and equate that worship of another "god" with the worship of the Christian God and still be a CHRISTian?

Their "god" didn't have a son. Our's did. So much for the "same god" idea*. Either Our God was lying to them about that, another being was lying to them professing to be "God" (large "G") and they bought into it, or they are lying about their god being OUR God. Take yer pick.
*http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/son2.htm

Molly May said...
Rather than attempting to take on jent, at which task you are failing, you may want to cut your losses now and trot on back to freerepublic immigration threads where you at least can sound the alarm for your soft-on-illegal-aliens buddies to help you out.

Instead of confining your modest talents to defending the illegal alien lawbreakers from Mexico, I see you've now branched out to include Muslims within your protective embrace. Pathetic...

You may want to bail out now. She's eating your lunch.

MarineDad said...
The visible leader of Christendom is not the leader of the church Yeshua built on the confession of Peter. The Lord never did relinquish His position as leader of Christianity. Christendom and Christianity today have no more than a nodding acquaintance with one another. Personally I will choose Christianity, it will lead me to eternity with God. Christendom is a nice social organization which seems to not want to offend anyone. Jesus offended many, most of whom have long since been forgotten.

Jen said...
I'm on the books as Catholic but I go to Calvary Chapel and other denominations because I love to study the Bible and I believe no one Church has a monopoly on Jesus Christ. It’s all about whether one has the foundation of Christ. We are to be born again, and I believe there will be many, and not all, from every church that are born again that have the foundation of Christ.
As far as an infallible Pope goes, I’m not sure I fully understand what the RCC means by that, but Peter was the first Pope and he made a mistake that Paul corrected him on. There are mistakes but God will deal with it.

I just get so tired of people bashing the Catholic Church. I just grow so tired of people bashing the Catholic church and I defend her often. I see the churches like this:

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
(~Jesus according to Mark 9)

Jen said...
MarineDad, you wrote: "The visible leader of Christendom is not the leader of the church Yeshua built on the confession of Peter. The Lord never did relinquish His position as leader of Christianity... "
I've never heard "Christendom" used like that

To: Molly May
Good response. I'm sure he took that screennaame for a reason.

dizzy said...
dizzy: ("Culture Jihadist" writes) The Pope says one thing, while jent says something else. There's a moral dilemma, choosing whether to follow the lead of the visible head of Christendom, or some anonymous internet blogger's opinion.

You unwitingly just made my earlier point, CJ. you have also shown a lack of knowledge of Christianity. I presume that you are not a follower of same. The Pope is the head of the Catholic church but is NOT the "head of Christendom". Catholics ARE bound by his decrees and dogma. Christians are in no way bound by the decisions of the Pope and have not been since the time of the inception of the catholic church under Constantine. Information offered by "Jent", per se, who you attempt to impugn as "an anonymous internet blogger" and who apparently is anything BUT, in no way binds Christians. It is rather the fact that what she is offering is in fact that of Jesus Christ, through what is specifically addressed in the Bible, that binds us. She is in accord with same.(doffs hat to "Jent") THAT is the binding authority for Christians. Those who are of the romist church will have to follow the pope's decrees on this topic. Those of us who are Christ's followers POST reformation (aka; the time of Martin Luther) will continue to follow biblical teachings and the pope's decree is meaningless.
the Catholics see "the Reformation" and the attempted destruction of "The Church"+. Christians see it as the acknowledgement and triumph of Christ's teaching over those of the romist church's hybridization of Roman paganism and Christianity.º
+New Adventhttp://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12700b.htm
ºRoman Cathocilism, The Unbiblical churchhttp://www.scionofzion.com/rc.htm

The reluctant messenger, Two Babylons http://reluctant-messenger.com/2-babylons.htm

Culture Jihadist said...
"As we seek freedom in other nations, we must also work to renew the values that make freedom possible. As I said in my Inaugural Address, we cannot carry the message of freedom and the baggage of bigotry at the same time."
-- President George W. Bush, February 21, 2005

dizzy said...
CJ. I can see why you're in both here and the "open borders" threads. I suspect that you're in favor of keeping the borders open so the other jihadists can mosey in at their leisure, hence the dual interest. I am in both for just the opposite reason. I don't want ANYBODY coming over our borders illegally, regardless of point of origin. RE: BOOSH'S BS which you just cited. Everyone is a "bigot" (Definition: a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own) as we all have our likes and dislikes and personal beliefs. This would include you as you've made a number of statements in these discussions which have no basis in fact and are simply your opinions. El presidente BOOSH is one of the WORST. He ignores what 75% or Americans say they want, what security experts, national security organizations and the 9/11 panel say we need; he ignores history as well as ignoring common sense to push his own personal agenda. He's completely impervious to all the evidence to the contrary and will NOT change his opinions. That's "bigotry" to the "nth" degree. El presidente thinks Islam "is a religion of peace" in spite of the evidence and record to the contrary in existence since 638 AD (the Koran) and actions dating from 653AD to date. He thinks our borders are safe. He thinks that we "need" our invaders. He thinks that they are only taking the jobs Americans don't want. He believes invaders are good for the ecomony, apparently even those of the ilk that gave us 9/11.He believes we can stop people of that nature from coming across wide-open borders without in any way molesting his "family values peaceful agrarians" as they illegally pour across....See how it works? The Whitehouse is a refuge for an intransigent bigot living in La-la land. When I express an opinion I try and review the supporting facts up front and I am willing to offer up same, as in my previous post, for anyone interested. This tends to irritate "bigots" like you and Dane, holding opinions to the contrary, as, as noted and my facts-supported beliefs conflict with your prejudices. By doing so it makes it hard to argue personal opinions back and forth when one side just has an opinion based on personal experiences or preferences and the other side has supporting research. Feel free to start supporting your opinions.

plubius said...
The Pope is a man, nothing more.
Allah is NOT I AM.

Culture Jihadist said...
People argue endlessly about a being they have neither seen nor strongly desire to see.

plubius said...
To CulturalJihad People argue endlessly about a being they have neither seen nor strongly desire to see."
What people would that be?

HiTech said...
To dizzy: Per that "Lumen Gentium" you cited, The Pope disagrees with the words of Jesus Christ that HE (Christ) is the one route to salvation.

It looks like the Pope sees the road to Christ as beginning in morality and a belief in a creator. The intent seems to be that, with the Pope's blessings, and with the picture, however distorted, that they have of God, some of these Muslims sooner or later would come to believe in Jesus Christ, in the next world if not this one (i.e. in a purgatory). It actually isn't too far from some of C. S. Lewis's speculations about conversions that take place "under the cloud." Now whether this is credible is another story. The way many (not all) Muslims carry on seems to imply that they have cast the devil as their god.

MarineDad said...
To: jent
The term "Christendom" has been used to describe the plethora of denominations claiming to be Christian without keeping the simplicity described by St. Paul in the first Corinthian letter Chapter 1:
"21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men."

He was indicating that the message of redemption was so simple as to seem foolish to educated men of the time. Christianity is the movement started by the Apostles which holds to the Word of God, which declares that all believers in and of God's Word are priests,that Yeshua ha Mashiach (Jesus the Christ) is the only Way to be saved; and which worships Him regardless of the names men have hung on various assemblies of Christians. Thus the leader of the former is not the leader of the latter because only the Messiah can be the leader of Christianity, and He does not dwell in the Vatican.

The term Christendom was coined at a time when only the Roman Church was considered to be Christian. Christendom was the instigator of the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the persecution of the Jews. Christianity has its roots in Judaism, and the first Christians were all Jews. There are many today who are both Christian and Jewish. And there are many groups within Christendom who preach a message incompatible with God's Word. Once again citing Saint Paul, in Galatians 1:8 he said: "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!" My wife who was born Roman Catholic, baptized Roman Catholic, grew up in a Roman Catholic home, attended Parochial schools for twelve years, and was married in a Nuptial Mass, left Catholicism when she was told by a priest that she should stop reading the Bible because it was making her ask too many questions. We both believe in the dichotomy Christendom/Christianity. And we choose Christianity.
(Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.)

Jen said...
To: MarineDad
thanks MD, when you wrote "was indicating that the message of redemption was so simple as to seem foolish to educated men of the time." I see that as so true.
MarineDad, the textbook was predominantly written from the Muslim standpoint, any idea why they refused to call Catholics "Catholics" in the textbook? They taught about Catholicism but it was weird, refused to call them Catholics, rather Christians.

I kept trying to figure out why...wonder if it's because the Koran curses Christians, but doesn't use the word Catholic?

MarineDad said...
Jen,
There are many major religions who have one commonality, the need to balance your bad actions with good ones. Islam, Rabbinic Judiasm, Roman Catholicism, most of the Eastern religions, usw. Possibly that commonality is the reason that textbooks biased toward Islam would not name any particular group but would lump them all under Christianity. But who knows what goes on in the mind of a Muslim radical?

OBAMA'S ILLEGITIMATE WAR ON ISRAEL

as seen at FreeRepublic by Jen Shroder

We try to forget that Obama was born and raised Muslim, named Hussein, (a distinctly Muslim name)—Muslim family—Muslim attire, enrolled in schools as Muslim, admits Koranic studies, is described by those who knew him as "previously quite religious in Islam."(1) Obama announced we "are no longer a Christian nation," celebrates Ramadan, ignores the National Day of Prayer, declares Israel settlements as "illegitimate" on the eve of the high holy day of Judaism…Obama has all of Islam applauding, rallying, proclaiming "Our Time has Come" and tyrants expressing hope Obama will remain president forever…

I suppose it’s disrespectful to say "If it walks like a duck…"

In 1973, Islam attacked Israel on Yom Kippur. President Obama is following suit with his own Ramadan War on Israel. Oh, wait! Ramadan is a month of peace, right? A month that war is forbidden. UNLESS THE VICTIMS ARE UNBELIEVERS.

The Sira, (2) a sacred book studied by all imams, clerics and mullahs, reveals that when Mohammed’s men attacked and killed a caravan of unbelievers on the last day of a sacred month, Allah’s response according to Mohammed was, "They will ask you about the sacred month, and war in it.… If you have killed in the sacred month, they have kept you back from the way of Allah with their unbelief in him, ..and they will not cease to fight you until they turn you back from your religion if they can’" (Sira:425, 426) And so Allah sanctioned slaughtering on sacred months as Mohammed's men were excused.

The Quran/Koran instructs Islam to follow the Life of Mohammed. The Sira is accepted throughout the Middle East as the oldest and most accurate account of that life and it sanctions murder and deception as long as it furthers the cause of Allah.

Obama studied Islam. The West does not. The greatest propaganda machine in all of mankind’s history has been the marketing of Islam as peaceful. We are flooded with that claim in our schools, in the media and from the White House. Most of us believe it even as entire nations are being systematically slaughtered in the name of Allah.

Israel’s Rights to her Homeland

Obama’s "illegitimate settlements" indeed! Israel’s rights to her homeland are archaeological, historical, Biblical. (3) The Jews were ousted by the Greeks and the land became the most desolate spot on earth. The Jews came back and BOUGHT it when Great Britain controlled it, they paid for all of it including Jordan and the mountains of Israel. But then under Arab pressure, the deal was reversed and Israel only received 23% of what they paid for. Yet the Jews continued to purchase it independently. Israel is the only nation that can prove by land titles and deeds that they OWN the land, five-times what they have, paid twice over, for what was theirs in the first place. Testimony before the Royal Commission on January 12, 1937 proves the private purchases were recognized.

"The Lord said to Abram, "Lift up now your eyes, and look from the place where you are northward, and southward, and eastward and westward: for all the land which you see, to you will I give it, and to your seed forever." (Gen 13)

There was never a nation of Palestine, it is only the location swarmed by various peoples after the Jews made it lush again. Now what small percentage the Jews have left, Obama is calling "illegitimate."

Where is that birth certificate again, Hussein?

Israel has one. You won’t show us yours.

Political Feedback of Obama’s UN Speech:

"We continue to emphasize that America does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements (in the West Bank)… We know the future will be forged by deeds and not simply words. Speeches alone will not solve our problems. It will take persistent action. So for those who question the character and cause of my nation, I ask you to look at the concrete actions we have taken in just nine months." Muslim representatives thundered in applause.

(Shudder) What are we forging by Obama’s deeds?

Steve Hayes of "The Weekly Standard" assessed the Obama administration as wanting to "elevate the United Nations and make it a serious global policy-making body. …"You have Muammar Qaddafi, a rogue dictator, a crazy man, speaking -- supposed to speak for 15 minutes, ends up speaking for some 90 minutes, filled with untruths, half-truths, complete nonsense. The United Nations was never able to enforce its resolutions on Iraq. It is not able to enforce its resolutions on Iran. It is not even able to keep Muammar Qaddafi from talking for more than 15 minutes. I think it was a dangerous speech in many ways."

Charles Krauthammer, noted political analyst said, "Obama's speech is alarming because it says the United States has no more moral right to act or to influence world history than Bangladesh or Sierra Leone. It diminishes the United States deliberately and wants to say that we should be one nation among others, and not defend the alliance of democracies that we have in NATO, for example, or to say as every president has said before Obama that we stand for something good and unique in the world.

"When Obama talked about how he had reversed the course of America and how those who doubt our character ought look at our actions, among the actions he cited was our joining the U.N. Human Rights Council, which is led by the worst human rights violators on the planet. It is an Orwellian, farcical organization. The idea that we should be on it is regrettable, but the idea that we should be boasting about it as an American achievement is a scandal."(4)

Rush Limbaugh was livid and said, "He talked about Israeli occupation, the "illegitimacy of the continued settlements"… Barack Obama is deconstructing the United States of America, internally and now externally in terms of foreign policy…He just ripped this country to shreds. He ripped Israel to shreds. He's promised we're no longer going to be a superpower…He talks about a New World Order, and a New World Order is him. Obama is bigger than his country; he's bigger than the presidency; he is the world. He delivered the United States of America to global powers today, just handed us over on a silver platter without a gunshot, without a shot being fired."

In a proclamation of warm wishes to Israel and Yom Kippur, Sarah Palin said, "A speech was given at the United Nations General Assembly yesterday that was full of hateful anti-Semitic rhetoric. It was a shameful display before a body whose very charter is premised on the need for co-operation and harmony in pursuit of peaceful co-existence between nations. Such talk was especially abhorrent coming as it did during the Jewish High Holidays. The world community must speak with one voice in declaring anti-Semitism and all forms of intolerance and racism utterly unacceptable. There is no place in the community of peace-loving nations for those who traffic in hate or deny the terrible atrocity of the Nazi Holocaust."(5)

But Sarah, those are Obama’s buddies.

It’s not certain whose speech she was condemning, but Obama "emphasized" which side he is sitting on. And he is claiming America sits with him.
America has THREE branches of government, Legislative, Judicial and Executive. Obama sounds more like a dictator, confident of his singular control, and has been assuring ISLAM we are one with them.

Obama said, "We are no longer a Christian nation" It didn’t take long for him to ring in his favored replacement. During his campaign, Obama talked about "my Muslim faith" and then claimed it was a gaffe. In light of recent news, the "hope and change" he’s reaching for, even his staunchest defenders have to be taking a second look. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h57H_7i3GLE&NR=1

Will anyone still defend Obama’s HUGE Islamic insult of displaying the heels of his feet while talking with Benjamin Netanyahu, prime minister of Israel in an official White House-released photo? That’s a cultural insult little known in the West. Obama’s feet were posed dead-on into the camera, why the detail of talking with Netanyahu if it was so innocent? Answer. It wasn’t. This is our intelligent president, remember? The one who bows to Saudi kings.(6)

WE THE PEOPLE are getting fed up with Obama dictating who we are, apologizing for us to pseudo-human-rights thugs and tyrants, and doing everything he can to destroy what was once a great nation.

The only hope I have is in my Lord and Savior. Pray for Israel and pray that Obama fails with his changes. I don’t want my future granddaughters forced to wear Obama burqas.

More importantly, I don't want to be counted as a people against Israel. That's a cup of trembling (7) I pray no one I know has to drink.

 ____________________________________________
Backup:
Obama’s Muslim childhood http://www.danielpipes.org/5544/barack-obamas-muslim-childhood
Sira http://www.blessedcause.org/complaint/Mary%20Habeck.htm
Seven Reasons Israel has a Right to Her Land http://www.mollyscannons.com/forums/showthread.php?p=461#post461
Fox News Special Report with Bret Baier http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,555164,00.html
Sarah Palin’s Warm Wishes on Yom Kippur http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/09/sarah-palin-on-yom-kippur-may-gd-bless-the-jewish-people.html
Rush Limbaugh http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_061009/content/01125106.member.html
Cup of trembling http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zech%2012&version=KJV

All of heaven watches
how we wield our vote

as seen at FreeRepublic  | 10-31-10 | Jen Shroder

 
A man drives past the polling station with a shrug, thinking his one vote doesn't matter. Who cares?


Oh not many. Just all the host of heaven.


"For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known. Therefore whatever you have spoken in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have spoken in the ear in inner rooms will be proclaimed on the housetops." (-Jesus, Luke 12)


If and how we vote bears a huge impact in the spiritual realm. These are not idle matters.


Christine O'Donnell has been labeled "mentally ill" through the media because she openly admits her relationship with her heavenly Father. Money changes hands as slanderous stories emerge in efforts to destroy her bid for the U.S. Senate. Through it all Christine smiles, reflecting on her unexpected success as prayer groups mobilize. These are the spiritual matters that rock the attention of heavenly hosts, and armed with what information we have, all of heaven watches how we wield our vote.


Will we always be right? Will our choices for Senate adhere to their promises? Probably not. But God knows whether we bothered to defend to the best of our ability a child's life hanging in the balance, or whether or not our children are indoctrinated in public schools to every foul and perverse practice known under the sun. Battle lines emerge as our children's age of consent is continually assaulted, that men would have the right to seduce ever-younger children without repercussion or interference from the parent. Today, Mayor Gavin Newsom is ahead in the polls. How quickly we forget a man who threw aside the vote of the people against gay marriage and ordered city staff to perform them.


Does God hold us responsible for what Newsom did? No. But if we vote to increase his power as Lieutenant Governor or fail to vote for his conservative opposition, every action that Newsom imposes will be directly attributable to those who had the power to stop him, and didn't.


Do you really think God isn't watching?


"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment." (-Jesus, Matthew 12)


Actions have consequences. Inaction as well.


"I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. (Revelation 3)


Our public schools have become rampant indoctrination centers. Teachers have become so blatantly outrageous in their liberal practices that they don't even notice they are breaking the law, as evidenced by Barbara Boxer's campaign letter::


Dear Teachers, ...Various Government and Social Studies teachers throughout Los Angeles have asked if their students could take part in our campaign to gain an invaluable educational experience on one of the highest profile Senate races this election, earn extra credit, or fulfill class volunteer hours. We want to extend this opportunity to all local students and invite them to our state headquarters in Hollywood to volunteer."


And what does Boxer stand for? She voted for partial birth abortions, for unrestricted UN funding for population control policies, for embryonic stem cell research, to help students cross state lines to get abortions and against parental notification.


"But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea." (Mark 9)


Closing our eyes and covering our ears, making ourselves BLIND to the evil that proliferates when we fail to stand against it...do not fool yourselves into thinking that no one is watching.


Maybe our politician will lose, maybe the America we know and love will crumble, polluted and perverted beyond recognition by our fellow Americans, but win or lose, YOUR VOTE will shine for the righteous intent in which you stood. The host of heaven IS watching and forever recording every effort you made to protect our children, our country, our one nation under God. Do not waste this opportunity. Vote.


Vote to protect our children.

BlessedCause Website

Glenn Beck exposing progressives,
your Chavez is showing

as seen at FreeRepublic By Jen Shroder

Ever feel like both Republicans and Democrats are just puppets on a stage of distraction? Glenn Beck has been explaining why to millions of captivated Americans. It's the Progressive movement and it attacks the Constitution from BOTH parties. If you haven't been watching his show, you need to.

Glenn explains how Progressivism has been with us since the turn of the century. It isn't discussed in textbooks because President Woodrow Wilson and Walter Litman were part of the "Council of Foreign Relations" whose goal it was to change history as we knew it through education and the media. The movement (alive and well today) is out to replace our beloved Constitution with a philosophy that the elite should rule. Woodrow Wilson said, "Justly revered as our great Constitution is, it could be stripped off and thrown aside like a garment and the nation will still stand forth..." He said the preamble of the Constitution should never be read and the Declaration of Independence has zero relevance to any other age other than 1776.
I never heard that in school...

Academic elites hold George Bernard Shaw dearly in their hearts. Are they aware he was a Progressive that said, "I think it would be a good thing to make everybody come before a properly-appointed board, just as they might come before the income tax commissioner, and say every five years, or every seven years, just put them there, and say, "Sir, or madam, now will you be kind enough to justify your existence? If you're not producing as much as you consume or perhaps a little more, then, clearly, we cannot use the big organizations of our society for the purpose of keeping you alive, because your life does not benefit us and it can't be of very much use to yourself."

These are Progressives with EVIL philosophies, admiring mass murderers like Che, Castro, Stalin and Mao. So who do we know that's a Progressive today? Beck plays the clips:

HILLARY CLINTON: "I prefer the word Progressive which has a real American meaning going back to the Progressive era at the beginning of the 20th Century. I consider myself a modern Progressive.

BARACK OBAMA: "You will carry on the best Progressive forward looking values of this proud commonwealth...," "Change has always come from places like Wisconsin, the State where the Progressive movement was born." He refers to Democrats as Progressives.

Before becoming President, Obama said the Warren court failed to "break free from the essential constraints" in the U.S. Constitution and launch a major redistribution of wealth. But Obama said the legislative branch of government, rather than the courts, probably was the ideal avenue for accomplishing that goal. Then he stood there in his State of the Union Address and chastised the US Supreme Court for their decision to uphold the Constitution.

MICHELLE OBAMA on the campaign trail: "...and Barack knows that we are gonna have to make sacrifices, we are gonna have to change our conversation, we are gonna have to change our traditions, our history, we are gonna have to move into a different place."

ANITA DUNN, former White House Communications Director: "Mao Tse Tung and Mother Teresa; not often coupled with each other, but the two people that I turn to most."
Mao was responsible for the deaths of 70 million people!

RON BLOOM, Manufacturing 'Czar': "We know that the free market is nonsense.... We know that this is largely about power, that it's an adults only, no-limit game. We kind of agree with Mao that political power comes largely from the barrel of a gun."

There are 82 members of the Progressive Caucus of the Democratic Party. In fact, 11 out of 20 standing committees are chaired by members of the Progressive Caucus.

Glenn has also noted that John McCain is a Progressive who's hero is Teddy Roosevelt, also a Progressive. This causes concern as to why Sarah Palin will be stumping for John McCain on his campaign trail? I love Sarah Palin, but we need to start scrutinizing our potential candidates carefully. Very carefully.
Meanwhile, as you can imagine, Beck is taking much heat for all his hard work. Articles are being published in the Mein Kampf media attempting to belittle Beck. Yet top historians don't seem to come up with a single inaccuracy.

Arianna Huffington said on Keith Olbermann of Beck, "We cannot just dismiss him because the truth of the matter is that there is a good reason why we have an exemption to the free speech protected by the First Amendment when we say you cannot shout "fire" in a crowded theater, and he's doing that every night, he's basically using images of violence to bring together with all that he's accusing the Obama administration of..."

So free speech should be protected when it agrees with Arianna Huffington and the Progressives. Arianna, your Chavez is showing.

Roger Ailes, CEO of Fox News, has taken some of the heat as well, to which I say hats off to both Ailes and Beck! Ronald Reagan said, "When government expands, liberty contracts." Many Americans are contracting right along with our liberties. Thank God for men who stand up and shout FIRE when there is one!

Beck entertains as he exposes political motives by restoring history through film clips. If you don't have cable or Fox News, now is a good time to get it. For the sake of the country, watch Glenn Beck. Because if we don't protect America as she was meant to be, it will be taken from us. As Glenn says, America, remember who you are.

BlessedCause Website